Global Warming

[grizzlyzone]

I'm willing to walk in lockstep with the whole idea of global warming, greenhouse gases and the like. But, I was just wondering...

When electricity is generated at a power plant, lots of heat is generated to produce steam, the steam drives a steam turbine, which drives a generator and electricity is generated. Any waste heat is released into the environment with cooling towers or cooling ponds or just discharging the warm water into the nearest large body of water.

When ever electricity is used - say with lighting - part of the energy creates the light; while the rest of the energy generates heat, which is released into the environment.

When cars, trains and ships are driven, part of the energy produces the forward motion; while the rest of the energy generates heat, which is released into the environment.

So, I guess my question is, "Does any of this waste heat get factored into the whole "global warming" equation?"

Which kind of brings up the other half of the conversation. We must've moved just about all of the American manufacturing jobs to China, because you'd be hard-pressed to go to the store - any store - and find something made in the good ol' U.S. of A.

All those Chinese goods need to be shipped over, which consumes petroleum (imagine that) and causes even more heat to be released into the environment, not to mention creating all those extra greenhouse gases. Now, if production was done in the U.S., since we have environmental regulations (unlike China) which means that overall, less greenhouse gases would be released into the environment.

So, protect the environment, buy American. If you can find anything made here. Am I right?

Comments

[beartech420.livejournal.com]

The USA right now produces the most greenhouse gasses than any one else. It is a fact that we are burning coal for electrity and that we are all using more gasoline than any country in the world. Now if we wanted to make a big difference, this country could build windturbine, solarcells and nuclear power plants. For our cars we could run cars with alcohol, hyrogen or biodeisel. Better than that a big difference would be light rail systems in major cities with fast trains between cities like in europe, trains can be the most efficent form of transit.
You really can't compare us with china we are 300 million china has 1.25 billion people. As a nation we have the resorces and technolgy to cut our CO2 product and maintain a good standard of living. We could be an example to the whole world.

We could be an example to the whole world.

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

I thought we were. Just not in anything anyone would want to boast about.

The USA right now produces the most greenhouse gasses than any one else.

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

Do we get the "credit" for all the pollutants generated by all those ships bringing all those Chinese goods here, or do the Chinese? Just wondering.

Re: The USA right now produces the most greenhouse gasses than any one else.

[beartech420.livejournal.com]

I think as transport goes ships are pretty good. But you forgetting all the scrap metal they been recieving from us. 2 years ago china started using more steel than the usa.

But you forgetting all the scrap metal they been recieving from us.

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Didn't the Japanese get a lot of scrap metal from us in the early 1940's?

At least SOMEBODY is recycling.

Re: But you forgetting all the scrap metal they been recieving from us.

[beartech420.livejournal.com]

yep so much the longshoremen unions in San Francisco were protesting about scrap steel going to japan.

Steel is one of the most recycled materials in modern civilization. I think the chinese are going wild on infrasture right now. 300 million of them are now middle class.

300 million of them are now middle class.

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

We'll we've been showing them all the things we have - they've been making them. You'd expect them to want some of their own sooner or later.

Now if we wanted to make a big difference...

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

It would seem to me that if we wanted to switch to some kind of alternative fuel, the way to do it would involve modes of transportation where vehicles would be refueled at pre-determined locations. Like trains, busses and airplanes.

Re: Now if we wanted to make a big difference...

[beartech420.livejournal.com]

Trains and busses are great because they are more efficient than cars. Busses use desiel already so it would be easy to switch to biodesiel.

Re: Now if we wanted to make a big difference...

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

Good point. I believe trains use diesel as well.

Certain alternative fuels make the most sense in certain applications. It makes the most sense to start biodiesel in places where you need a limited number of refueling points (and the vehicles are already set up for diesel). Like trains and buses.

It makes the most sense to start the more exotic fuels (like hydrogen) in places where you need the fewest number of refueling stations and where the fuel you need is less critical - like power plants.

It makes the most sense to use the fuels that are most like gasoline (like E85) in autombiles.

Thinking along those lines and I'm sure we could find a bigger audience for the alternative fuels argument. I think you'd find the most resistance with the idea of hydrogen-powered cars. You'd need to scrap and re-build too much infrastructure.

Re: Now if we wanted to make a big difference...

[beartech420.livejournal.com]

hydrogen seems the most dificult in terms of infrastructure but even there people have put out designs where the hydrogen is produced right at the station itself using electrosis. If that electrcity is made using green technology you have something that can work. Either bmw or audi had made a car which could run on both gasoline and hydrogen.

...where the hydrogen is produced right at the station itself using electrosis

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

You aren't going to see that. That's one step away from home-brew hydrogen, and the powers that be won't let us get anywhere near that.

Re: ...where the hydrogen is produced right at the station itself using electrosis

[beartech420.livejournal.com]

actually I saw a website where a guy was doing it in his back yard. If i can find the link i'll send it!

Re: ...where the hydrogen is produced right at the station itself using electrosis

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

It may be possible, but I just don't think we're going to see it.

lets try that again

[sultmhoor.livejournal.com]

The amount of solar energy hitting the earth at any one time is about 174 petawatts per second - thats 10¹⁷, or around 5.5 yottawatts (5.5 x 10²⁴W) per year. The amount of consumed (electrical) energy in any one year is around 1.7 terawatts per year - that's 10¹², estimating higher than 60% loss with most heat-exchanging power plants, like coal, nuclear, natural gas, conservatively you could say 2 terawatts (10¹²)of emitted thermal energy per year. Really, a drop in the bucket, comparatively.

We do have a lot of environmental regulations, but I think they mostly control the amount of non-CO₂ emissions, like NO_x and SO_x.

...or around 5.5 yottawatts (5.5 x 10^24W) per year.

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

(Excuse the pun. I can't help myself!)

That's a lotta yottawatts!

Thank you for taking the time to look that up and run the math. I appreciate it.

[fattastic.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, by USA made if you can find it. The U.S. is the worst when it comes from protecting the environment.

Really?

[grizzlyzone.livejournal.com]

I remember as a kid seeing a brown "umbrella" over the city of Chicago as we were driving in on the expressway. The last time I saw the city, that brown "umbrella" was gone.